so it's a terrific defensive company. >> and what about johnson & johnson. that's the other steady eddie th you talk out. >> well, look. people are still going to buy band-aids. they're still going to buy tylenol. they're still going to buy many of the medical devices and drugs that they provide. so you're going get growth. you're getting an above average dividend, a better than bond dividend yield, and you're almost assured of annual increases in dividends. so you get your cake and you get to eat it too. >> all right. on the other side of the equation, you have some cyclical stocks that you are recommending here. you have union pacific, ticker symbol unp. tell us about that. >> well, look. even though it's a domestic company, it's an emerging market play because of all the traffic from east to west, feeding to asia and the emerging economies. plus it's a play on the revival of manufacturing and industry in the united states. and that is taking place. >> all right. and dupont, which should be reporting earnings soon. you like this one, even though the stock